Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

My bad, I forgot that the book donation counted directly towards the title. Regardless, it is still nearly 1 million faction. It is a fairly large chunk when chasing a goal of 10 million without wanting to grind/repeat things. How many winning FA matches does this make at 2.5k a match? 400 I believe, unless my maths is wrong. How many Urgoz runs does this make? I'm not sure on the average faction in either NM or HM for this mission.

Remember that these players don't get access to the faction which new players would get vanquishing on their first two characters.

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Is your only way of discussing called "don't quote anything but call your opponent and idiot and take your toys home"?

We wouldn't get free rewards. If someone did something 6 times and didn't get a reward, and NOW someone will do it in half and get a full reward, I think HE got it free. Because he did 1/12 of our work and got more than we did. That's almost free.

Originally Posted by MStarfire

I'm sorry, I must not be up on the "new math". How is 120,000 "nearly" 1,000,000? Some trick of calculus?

Originally Posted by MStarfire

You, sir, are amazing. You're a voice of indignant, self-righteous reason on a board otherwise full of start-raving idiots who never made much headway in English or Debate classes.

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

If you knew programming, you'd know it's never "completely impossible", just too difficult/costly. You don't trust them on the economic explanation, I think we should simply keep asking them to release detailed information on this point.

But IMHO you're reading too much behind her words.

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Of course I see what you mean, since I'm in agreement about RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO getting 2 books retroactively. But the important point here is that you're wrong that they have to grind, they simply have to redo the content, not grind it. No one is at the moment forcing them to do anything (if I were provocative, I'd say that some of the people criticising the update are the lazy ones, they want free stuff for no effort, but we'll never know who this is).

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

If you look at the fun you had from the game, then this issue becomes less important (but I understand those that are talking of fairness from the start). Except if fun for you is dependent on others' fun.

Well, here, I disagree, it's those players that brought it onto themselves. It's the "want reward" philosophy that is wrong, I do not mean to say that rewards are bad/useless, simply that their priority is low.

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

In RL, this kind of reasoning very rarely leads to fairness, as it often opens more doors for people to QQ/criticise.

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

As a criticism of Anet's lack of investment for the people that did all the content over and over again, all these comments seem fine, but not as a sole criticism of this update.

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

You're wrong: a minority asks for the retroactive rewards, but this may affect a lot of people (most of whom would not say anything).

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

While we express our opinions on Guru, most of the GW population is either playing, or not, and that's what'll show whether Anet should do things differently.

No it doesn't if: 1) you look at it from the point of view of making more people playing, pugging and thus having fun; 2) as a (possible) first step in the "right" direction, something we'll only be able to assess when more is done in the future.

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Games are among the most complicated software in the world, even more complicated than OSs..

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Do you honestly think that they simply had to change the myBigGWdatabase.data file, import the "Book" datastruct and call the "makeBook" procedure 6 times for each campaign?

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The update was clearly trying to reduce grind, but did it solve that problem? There are several arguments that say no.

Originally Posted by DreamWind

But to say "we want to decrease grind" then make an update that increases grind in any way is stupid.

Originally Posted by Hissy

Before the update, fastest way to grind faction was HFFF, which wasn't available to Luxons.

After the update, there are several new ways to gain faction - lots of them are faster and less tedious than HFFF, and they are available to Luxons.

Result: Faction grind IS decreased.

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I think a previous poster responded to this nicely:

"They haven't reduced the grind for faction at all. They introduced new and more ways to gain it, but doing every quest and every mission (NM and HM) won't get you close to maxing the title. Vanquishing all areas will help a bit, but you're still far from there. That means you're going to have to REDO missions/VQ's over and over again, which is grind imho."

Originally Posted by Hissy

That is not an appropriate response to what I said.
I said grind is reduced, I didn't say it was removed.

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Highly in question. Does adding new ways to gain faction even mean the grind is reduced, or that the old way was just stupid? Not to mention...the entire book thing actually increased grind for many...

Originally Posted by Hissy

There is no question. They didn't just add new ways to gain faction - they added new ways that gain faction faster than the previous fastest method (HFFF), and these methods are available to Luxons as well as Kurzicks.

Faster faction gain = less grind

If you're going to grind for a max faction title, you can do it faster than before.
Faction grind IS reduced.

You CAN choose a method that's slower if it suits you better, but that's your choice - and now you have more to choose from.

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The previous method was simply broken and had to be fixed.

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Nearly anything would have been better than the previous method. Yet there is still a ton of grind...

Originally Posted by DreamWind

and you didn't respond to the point that grind has been increased in many cases.

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Yeah , you are right , everyone knows that you MUST complete the campaigns six times./sarcasm

No one forced you to do them six times so stop QQing.

Originally Posted by hallomik

I still support making page filling the books retroactive, but I wonder if it even feasible anymore. Now that a lot of people have partially filled books, how would Anet untangle which missions were completed prior to the update and which were done after?

I fear this ship has sailed.

Originally Posted by Kha

It comes down to fairness.

Originally Posted by MStarfire

I'm sorry, I stopped reading right here, because who really gives a shit how fair a VIDEO GAME is? My god, talk about a misplaced sense of self-worth and entitlement.

Originally Posted by Abedeus

In a game like Halo or GTA I would agree. This is, however, a MMORPG. MMO. Massive Multiplayer Online game.

Or just Online Game. In Online games, fairness is pretty important if you want people to buy your next game.

If people see that veterans are screwed over, they won't want to be veterans in GW 2.